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How honest are you in Business dealings?

 
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In business and career, how honest are you?
I strive to be very honest, since integrity is the only way to get ahead.
66%
 66%  [ 8 ]
I have to shade and color things to my advantage, it is ok if some things are not true if no one gets hurt.
25%
 25%  [ 3 ]
People expect you to lie in business, so I do it about half of the time just like anyone else.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I lie and make things up, when it will help to close the sale, make the deal and get ahead. What's the big deal?
8%
 8%  [ 1 ]
I am rarely honest with anyone at work. It has gotten me into a lot of trouble and cause problems.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 12

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Wendi



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 776

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:19 am    Post subject: How honest are you in Business dealings? Reply with quote

Do you feel it is ok to lie in business dealings, to gain an advantage?
Is manipulation lying? Do you think a person can be succesful in their career and be honest with their employee, boss, clients, and coworkers?

Wendi
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marv
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:14 pm    Post subject: Business Integrity Reply with quote

It sure seems to be in my business that integrity takes a real backseat in both dealings with the client and employees of the company I work for. Is this a culture that is built in to strive to keep ones position in the company structure? The more I strive for honesty with my clients in realestate, the more backstabbing I get from others in the sales organization of my company. It seems to be the norm in most sales groups. I can understand being agressive in sales, but not lying to a customer to make a sale. I wonder how many others would say the same thing in business.
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cj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:39 am    Post subject: Honesty and Integrity Reply with quote

If you work in an organisation where there is lying, manipulation, agression you will always find there is someone who is setting those standards. Your best bet is getting out as fast as you can. There are so many organisations that work towards the highest integrity.

We can often be mislead in thinking that unless we behave the same way you cant get anywhere because we wonder why people like this get to management positions. The reason of this is because no-one challenges them.
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valeriekwinters
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Spin Reply with quote

What I found problematic working in a government management job was something called spin. You never lie, you just emphasize the facts you want related and deemphasize the facts you don’t want related. For example, in reviewing the proposal of a subordinate you might say that it’s, “Creative, full of innovative new ideas, and that it reflects a lot of effort on the part of the writer.” Or you could say that it’s “Full of grammatical errors, that the conclusions reached are unsupported by the facts, and that the writer is capable of doing a better job.” What’s difficult about this situation is that all of these statements may be true or honest, but the feedback you get is based on whether you have kissed up to your boss or pissed off your boss. Or perhaps the difference is based on whether the boss thinks the proposal will benefit or hurt their own career. The topic of spin also comes up a lot when communicating pending changes to subordinates. As a supervisor you are expected to communicate certain talking points that emphasize the positive aspect of the changes. The talking points may be honest, but often they lack specifics, or they are overly optimistic, and they don’t address potential difficulties that will be faced by your audience. Over time both the supervisors and the subordinates become skeptical and suspicious of these messages. But since there is no “lie”, it’s difficult to challenge this practice. You can tell them you feel the practice is manipulative and they will respond with a speech about the power of positive thinking. I would love to see more public debate about spin verses personal integrity. The words honesty and manipulation don’t adequately describe the problem. We need to develop a whole new language and a set of standards to adequately address the impact of this behavior.
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Russ M
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Shading and Coloring Reply with quote

I have to admit... I shade and color the truth at times. I would love to say that I am 100% honest at work, but I cannot. I try to be honest, but I've found that honesty does not always produce the desired results I am looking for.

Most of you may disagree with me, but I think that it may be that in order to manage some people dishonest is quite necessary. Some people, (mainly the ones with little to no motivation,) will not perform unless you give them fabricated deadlines or consequences.

I also believe it has to do with generations. In my generation, (Gen-X) I feel we are more accustom to lying in the workplace. It isn't "Are they lying?" It's "What are they lying about?" I wish it were not that way, but that is how I honestly feel.

Reading over this all again, I'm starting to sound like a manipulative, deceitful person. I assure you that is not the case. I suppose it is more of paranoia. I suspect most people of lying... guilty until proven innocent. Most of the people I know are the same way. That is what leads me to believe it may be linked to what generation you are.

Russ
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Wendi



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 776

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating.
I assume that everyone is honest. I tend to believe that they are telling the truth, unless I get clear signals that they are lying. After making the How to Spot a Liar video, I got very good at seeing the deception and dishonesty. But the more interesting thing about what you are saying, is that an honest person usually assumes others are just like them and a dishonest person assumes everyone else is lying as well.

Does that sound right for most of you?

Wendi

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onefunnybabe



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I agree that it is the honest people that assume everyone is lying and liars assume everyone is lying.
I'm an honest person and definetely not naive about people lying and usually I assume people are honest but I just listen and can tell when people aren't being honest or are hiding information or maybe are not comfortable with sharing with me the info.

For Russ:
I can understand using fake deadlines to motivate people but aren't there better ways?

Anyways, I believe it takes balls to be honest so I don't have the same respect for them (liars) as I do honest people.
I think that if everyone starts thinking its okay to lie, even small ones, it ends up eroding the morality of people and of a society. It causes mistrust in humans and just isn't good for developing connections and healthy relationships with people.
It really just takes less then a handful of courageous people to help straighten out an organization and get the momentum going towards being ethical. Majority of people tend to do just that: can be herded. It just takes a few people to stand up and say something is wrong and the issue needs to be addressed. Then the major will come around.
Paula
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Russ M
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:25 am    Post subject: Honesty vs. Dishonesty Reply with quote

Wendi-- You make a good point stating that honest people believe others are honest and dishonest people believe others are dishonest. Perhaps it is time I re-evaluate myself.

I do also want to state that I do not condone all dishonesty. I do feel that the world would be a much better place if everyone were honest. I just wanted to point out that dishonesty is very common in the work-place, and I feel people do not realize at times when they are being dishonest. Here is an example that happened to me yesterdsay:

I had put in for a day shift opening at the laboratory that I am employed with. Since I work nights, this was a good move for me. During my interview I was told that they had decided to pick me for the position, but asked me to keep it confidential since they still had 2 other people to interview. When I got out of the interview, I had many of my co-workers asking if I got the position. The first thing that went through my head was this forum on organizational honesty. Should I tell the truth and go against my director's request for confidentiality, or tell a fib and keep confidentiality. I told a fib in respect for my boss. A half dozen people asked if I got the job and a half dozon times I stated that I did not know.

Here I am faced with a conflict. I feel that this lie was okay to tell, and at the same time it is still a lie. These are the types of dishonesty I am speaking of when I say that small lies may be necessary in the work place. They do no harm, but rather protect. However, I cannot always see the possible effects of that small lie. As I believe it will do no harm, I could also be wrong.

Honesty is a very complicated subject. It, like most of life, cannot be catagorized into black and white. There is a massive gray area that must be accounted for. In the interview situation stated earlier, I would have just told the lie stating I did not know if I got the position and never thought of it as a lie. I wonder how many people do things like that on a daily basis and not realize when they are being dishonest.

Russ
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onefunnybabe



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

Russ,
It seems to me that you need to discern the idea of honesty and the need for confidentiality.
In your case it seemed justifiable to remain confidential and to respect the wishes of the employers. I think just telling your coworkers that you need to remain confidential is honest and also respectful of the employers wishes.
I think there is nothing wrong with maintaining confidential info with people because if someone asks you to keep something private, then if you don't you can break the trust.
There are times when we need to break confidential information and that's when it is harmful to people. For example, the story of Erin Brockovich. I don't know the story exactly but from what I understand she was told to keep corporate info private but since it was harmful to the health of a lot people, she made it public.
Also, some people who have been sexually abused, their abuser warns them not to tell anyone.
In cases like this, where one needs moral fibre, the truth needs to be addressed in spite of confidentiality.
Being honest doesn't mean you just tell people everything.
It's also about being sensitive socially.

I think the main points of honesty is to learn how to communicate truthful statements that the other person can understand i.e. you speak to their level. Some people you can be blunt with and that's the only way you can get through to them. Others need gentleness. Others need something in between.
I also think of the 3 states of a cell; that is impermeable (let's nothing in), permeable and semipermeable. I think we all need to be able to interact with people like that and be able to change our states.
We can't be permeable all the time.
We can't be immpermeable all the time.
This example illustrates how honesty is a dynamic process, much like everything else in life.

Paula
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paula, great post!
I like that part about honesty being a dynamic process.

Wendi
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HuntingFalcon



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Waxahachie Texas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: hmm Reply with quote

Ooo interesting topic here. Very Happy

Interesting posts above too. < I did not take time to read them all through completely. Razz

Honesty is another word for Truth. < at least in my mind. Smile

The main way it can be divided into two different things is simple. Honesty: if you know something you give your complete opinion about it. Such as in a debate. Truth: you state a truthful statement; you don't make a statement to help someone feel better. You have to speak the truth. <its interesting trying to define the word Truth without using honesty or truth in the definition.> I guess it can all be summed up with a simple statement though.

You learn honesty and integrity from your piers. < This statement makes me wonder though. With how dishonest our society is becoming. With how rot infested some major businesses have become. How can we truly keep the definition of the words Honesty, Integrity, and Truth pure?

This has been my 2 cents worth thank you for your time. < oh and if anyone can accurately interpret my writing above, congratulations. Its a first for many people. AAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Twisted Evil
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