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jgp57
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:19 pm    Post subject: I don't agree Reply with quote

Wendi,

In your newsletter, you write:

"If you have a high standard for honesty and you are willing to live by that standard you have the right to expect it of others. Agree?"

After reading a book by Shelle Rose Charvet "Words That Change Minds", I became acutely aware that I have my rules for me and you can have your rules for you.

This is the basis for me saying "whatever trips you trigger".

While I agree with you regarding having personal integrity, I also agree that having it enables me to set limits on what is acceptable to me (regarding integrity in others).

That, however is not to say that I "expect" it from them. Instead, recognizing that some may expect it from me, others may not.

Either way...be intrgral or not...my "opinion" is that it's entirely your call. And if you're not, I personally won't require a second encounter.

jp

p.s. am enjoying your products - use them regularly. am also enjoying your wit and humor.
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jgp57
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: btw Reply with quote

I meant to say "integral" not "intrgral".

That's my dyxlexia at work.

Or could be that I just kant spel!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can have different rules as to our level of honesty that we require for ourselves. Can we also require others around us to have this level of honesty? If a person decided to only allow people into their lives who are honest, would they live their life alone and single and friendless?

Can you forgive someone who lied intentionally?

Wendi
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onefunnybabe



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: I don't agree Reply with quote

jgp57 wrote:
Wendi,

In your newsletter, you write:

"If you have a high standard for honesty and you are willing to live by that standard you have the right to expect it of others. Agree?"



If I have a high standard of honesty it does mean I can expect it of others, however, it does not mean I must coerce people to be honest. I think an honest person will gravitate to honest people and will seek people with similar standards, just like people who aren't really honest with themselves will seek those who are 'asleep'.
Also, everyone can be trusted to a certain degree. Maybe you can trust someone in discussing financial things because they are highly honest in that area but in relationships all they do is lie lie lie!
So the question becomes: how may I trust you?
An honest person has to make an effort to find honesty in others and has to figure out how to access the greatest good within that individual.

Paula
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Wendi



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 776

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: I don't agree Reply with quote

Paula,

You said.

Also, everyone can be trusted to a certain degree. Maybe you can trust someone in discussing financial things because they are highly honest in that area but in relationships all they do is lie lie lie!

****
I wonder about this. Not everyone can be trusted to a certain degree. If someone lies about things, i think they lie about most anything and everything.
I think it is a character trait. You are reliable, trustworthy, honest, to varying degrees. Personally, if someone lies to me about one thing, I believe that tells me that htey are a person who does not have a standard of being honest. They operate from that value. It doesnt flucuate depening on the topic.

That is my opinion....

Wendi
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onefunnybabe



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all

Wendi-
I think we are both right in our descriptions. I definitely think there are people out there who just lie habitually and they have made it a part of their character. I also think some people might hide or pretend they are more successful in other areas if they are not but may be more honest in other areas of their life. For example, someone may be fairly honest but they tend to build up their sex image due to insecurity or wanting to fit in but in other areas of their life, they may feel more secure and less likely to lie.

Paula
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, i agree as well. Now that makes me want to ask the question to our readers-
Do you feel you are very honest in one area of your life, and very dishonest in another area?
Can these two values co-exist and still let you have a feeling of integrity?

Wendi
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HuntingFalcon



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Waxahachie Texas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: my 2 cents worth well actualy $20.00 worth :D Reply with quote

Great question. Really makes me think about what kind of person I am.

I think I am honest in most areas of my life. In my dealings with others. The main area I think I have dishonesty is in my dealings with myself. When I look back on my life and remember certain things I don't always remember all the details. So I often remember the situation wrong, it's not intentional but it does happen.
This raises another question. What is Honesty? Is it telling as much of the truth about the situation as you know? Or is honesty something more? If you tell someone about a real life situation and then find out later that you stated the information incorrectly where you dishonest? Also, should you try to fix the error or just leave it be?

This sounds like it could be an interesting topic to discus. Cool
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IngaBinga
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting turn of conversation. I tend to be ruthlessly honest, but I do try to tone things down for the more sensitive folks. I also seem to hang with those who are straight with me, and I appreciate their honesty and direct approach.

One of my favorite things to say is: I'd rather hear the hideous truth than be told a sugar coated lie, and it's absolutely true. I also tell people I hate liars and thieves but moreso liars as they are thieves of my time which is irreplacable.

Oddly enough, if I know someone is a pathological liar I rather like them! If I already know they are incabable of telling me the truth, I know ahead of time that I don't need to sift thru the bullshit to find a diamond, cuz it's all bullshit. Saves me time and I don't get my hands dirty. I also am extremely appreciative of their creatitivity but always a bit sad that they never use it for something positive.

I rarely lie. My age is something I tell people ahead of time that I lie about, and for some reason people always want to know my age. I do find myself on rare occasion blurting out the most idiotic lies, ones that make no difference, and I don't know why. Like if someone asks me where I went, and I tell them to the store for toothpaste, but it was really for nail polish remover. Stupid stuff. Maybe it is an inherent self preservation, my passive agressive way of brushing off their nosiness or lack of respect for the person being lied to. Not sure where it comes from.

I'd like to know why others lie though, as I've never really understood it. My sister is a pathological liar, and has been since earliest childhood. A personality trait apparently, but I do know she is very insecure and is always saying bad things about me to my friends. One of these days I'm gonna give her a good poke in the schnozze. Laughing
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silverfire



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Washington

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two comments for this thread. One, I disagree with the "I have my rules and you have yours" mentality. That's relativism, which is a seriously flawed philosophy. Now, if you mean "I have my *OPINION* and you have yours," I agree. Wink If you mean "I have my own personal ways of interpreting ethical standards and you have yours," yes. But you have to be careful not to get into the "It's wrong for me, but since you think it's right, it's okay for you."

That leads to "Murdering is wrong, but since you think it's good fun, it's okay for you." Wink

Two, I never lie. Never. Really. Never ever have I told a lie. ...

Actually, I told a whopper of a lie once as a kid (to this day, I still don't know *why* I did) that ended up scaring me out of lying for a *loooong* time. I was walking to a school carnival through the greenbelt and was late. They knew I was coming and asked me what took so long.

Here's where the lie came in.

I told them I was attacked by a tall bearded man with sunglasses, but I escaped into the wooded area and he ran off. Well, not attacked, but confronted.

Needless to say, the police were called, I was interviewed, the whole nine yards. I was stuck in the lie and had to make up details about the man. Seven feet tall, iirc ("Are you sure? That's taller than Mr. Palmer here."), greyish hair, beard and moustache, sunglasses, he must have thought I had a phone in the bushes since he didn't chase me, ...

After that, I couldn't bring myself to lie about the smallest thing for a few years.

A couple interesting things about that: a short time after the police incident, I was walking home along the greenbelt and encountered a man that matched my description. He was a semi driver, iirc, in a residential area, with his truck parked on the road. He didn't do anything, but I gave him a wide berth.

Also, years later, I found out *why* there was such a big, huge, immediate response. Turns out there actually *was* a guy going around ... bothering ... kids in the greenbelt. I, being my normal oblivious self (and ostracized, too, so kept out of the loop), had no idea at the time.

Perhaps I had a psychic moment or something, and that's why I lied? Wink

As to the current day, I see myself as fairly honest and having a decent amount of integrity. And it does fluctuate some depending on my surroundings. At work, if I say I'll do something, I do it. At home, if I say I'll do something, there's a chance I may not. That's more procrastination, however, than a lack of integrity. I fully intend to do it; I just don't do it in the time period they were expecting.

Part of that also is due to the disconnect between private and public life. People almost always behave better in public than they do in private. An extreme example is domestic abuse. In public, everything seems fine, the husband seems like a fine, upstanding person, but in private, he makes his wife's life hell.

The challenge is to make the two faces match, and be the face you *want*. I could definitely use improvement as far as integrity goes. There are certain areas where I lack the integrity I need, and I need to shore those up.

Then again, who doesn't?
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Mind Link



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I try to be honest as much as I can, and while I don't take people at their word In some way I trust them to be themselves.

There are people I can trust as far as I could throw

But there are also people who I know have a distorted sense of reality that while I believe they speak the truth, their not necessarily speaking fact. (Mostly wishful thinking)

I don't have problems with these.

By Biggest concern Ironically are the ones that are well meaning, but tell white lies to "spare my feelings". Usually from the opposite sex. It's just that these delicate situations I need to know their TRUE feelings in order to make the right decision. And as good as their intentions are, their attempts to cushion the hit seems more like attempting to fix the problem with duct tape.
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Flippper



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind Link wrote:
Ok I try to be honest as much as I can, and while I don't take people at their word In some way I trust them to be themselves.

There are people I can trust as far as I could throw

But there are also people who I know have a distorted sense of reality that while I believe they speak the truth, their not necessarily speaking fact. (Mostly wishful thinking)

I don't have problems with these.

By Biggest concern Ironically are the ones that are well meaning, but tell white lies to "spare my feelings". Usually from the opposite sex. It's just that these delicate situations I need to know their TRUE feelings in order to make the right decision. And as good as their intentions are, their attempts to cushion the hit seems more like attempting to fix the problem with duct tape.

Which relates to the other subject I replied to you about, yes? Strange that extremes do not seem to trouble you, but the minor offenses are your achilles heel. I am the opposite, for the most part, out and out lies piss me off. Little white lies are usually well meant, so the intent gets them more leniency than a bold faced liar would.

If you are needing to know their true feelings, tell them that is what you want and to not sugar coat it. Maybe they are their true feelings and you are reading more into it than is there. I tell people I would rather have the painful truth than a sugar coated lie, and I mean it. Most of my friends are what others call abrasive because they tell it like it is and I appreciate that. I tend not to tell 'white lies' but rather find a way to state what I wish to say in a positive light, as I dislike being dishonest, but if trapped like a rat I will speak my mind with no tact, but find it cruel and try to avoid it.
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Wendi



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also tend to say it like it is. That doesnt always go over well.
But, I wish that others would also jsut say what they mean and get it done.

Wendi
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Mind Link



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flippper wrote:
Mind Link wrote:
Ok I try to be honest as much as I can, and while I don't take people at their word In some way I trust them to be themselves.

There are people I can trust as far as I could throw

But there are also people who I know have a distorted sense of reality that while I believe they speak the truth, their not necessarily speaking fact. (Mostly wishful thinking)

I don't have problems with these.

By Biggest concern Ironically are the ones that are well meaning, but tell white lies to "spare my feelings". Usually from the opposite sex. It's just that these delicate situations I need to know their TRUE feelings in order to make the right decision. And as good as their intentions are, their attempts to cushion the hit seems more like attempting to fix the problem with duct tape.

Which relates to the other subject I replied to you about, yes? Strange that extremes do not seem to trouble you, but the minor offenses are your achilles heel. I am the opposite, for the most part, out and out lies piss me off. Little white lies are usually well meant, so the intent gets them more leniency than a bold faced liar would.

If you are needing to know their true feelings, tell them that is what you want and to not sugar coat it. Maybe they are their true feelings and you are reading more into it than is there. I tell people I would rather have the painful truth than a sugar coated lie, and I mean it. Most of my friends are what others call abrasive because they tell it like it is and I appreciate that. I tend not to tell 'white lies' but rather find a way to state what I wish to say in a positive light, as I dislike being dishonest, but if trapped like a rat I will speak my mind with no tact, but find it cruel and try to avoid it.



I think with a specific person who was in my life the reason the "White lies" were particularly damaging is because of the emotion I invested in this woman. The truth came out, but only after an awkward, and rather frustrating (for her) "last straw" experience. With a malicious liar I sense What they say differs from what my gut tells me.

But with someone like this woman I sense

What they say
Their good intent
My wishful thinking
They're hiding something

And it plays in my mind like a "It's not you it's me" scenario.
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steveaplomba



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree that the concept of lying is at the heart of deceit. Untrustworthy people tend to lie to protect their own sense of self - projecting that lie outwards in the hope of maintaining their self-illusion.
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